Author Topic: Kerbal Space Program - general, opening chat  (Read 7267 times)

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Monkeh

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Re: Kerbal Space Program
« Reply #30 on: July 24, 2013, 09:31:57 AM »
I said to myself I was going to work it all out for myself but in the end a few pointers from youtube and wiki searches helped a lot. Some of the mods are a bit cheaty imo so I'm avoiding most but the engineer one is literally just a calculator that saves you doing maths yourself. The only other one I got is one which allows sub assemblies to be saved and loaded so you can make a lifter or rover or satellite or whatever and load them up whilst another construct is in the VAB already and clip them together. Useful.

If you got to the Mun but lacked fuel to land then there's a couple of things you're probably doing sub optimally. The gravity turn, (getting to orbit), takes some working out for the most efficient trajectory, but I won't spoil your journey of discovery by laying it out here. The other thing is the fuel lines. The little yellow pipes on the second page of the propulsion tab. Play around with them.

Glad you're enjoying it though. Landing successfully on the Mun really was one of THE most satisfying gaming experiences of my life. I was so proud of little Bill Kerman.

Also, post some screenshots. I wanna see what you're building. Nosey git, that is me ;D
« Last Edit: July 24, 2013, 09:35:20 AM by Monkeh »

Skully

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Re: Kerbal Space Program
« Reply #31 on: July 24, 2013, 12:14:03 PM »
getting to the mun, whats the ideal rocket setup? I get into earths orbit for stuff using 4 for stage one, and then use one for the turns and orbit burning. Im guessing double that for mun traveling?

Monkeh

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Re: Kerbal Space Program
« Reply #32 on: July 24, 2013, 13:03:28 PM »
There is no ideal I'm afraid. Many and more designs can work. I've had huge beats of rockets with 12 solid fuel boosters and then elegant liquid only designs.

It's about having the right number of the right combination of engines to the amount of fuel you're carrying.

For example, the Mainsail engine has a thrust of 1500. Compare that to the LV-T30 which has a thrust of 215. So you'll need 7 or so LV-T30's to match a single Mainsail. Naturally the mainsail will eat fuel like an American car with a petrol addiction and a hole in the fuel tank.

To get to the Mun from a standard orbit requires around 1000 m/s delta v, to land will require some as well, damn you lack of atmosphere, so you need a big punch at the start and then efficiency. I feel you're about to hit the 'NEEDZ MOAR BOOSTERZ' phase of experimentation, but that will only get you so far.

Check out the screenshots on my steam profile, (or just go back a page), the rocket you see me building can easily get to the Mun on just a core of a double stack of three FL-T800 with a couple of extra double stacks in asparagus formation. Ensure you have good isp in vacuum engines for the stuff you do out of the atmosphere, makes them loads more efficient.

My current project has a double stack of the jumbo tanks with a mainsail with 2 sets of 2 jumbo tanks with some extra added on top, in double asparagus stage plus a few solid boosters for that initial kick, that gets me to Jool easy enough...yet to land on Laythe though cuz I keep warping past the maneuver nodes like a mong.

I'll stick some screenies on here when I can but just remember, efficient is better than bigger. Never stack 3 FL-T800's on a standard engine as the thrust to weight will dramatically reduce and install the kerbal engineer mod, it really helps without being all cheaty.


Peacekeeper

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Re: Kerbal Space Program
« Reply #33 on: July 24, 2013, 15:54:15 PM »
I nearly perfected my Mun-Landing designs, but still lack some pilot skills ( = experience). They get there, they get into Mun orbit, they run out of fuel and crash with 15 m/s.

I'll need one more RCS tank to make use of the middle stage to slow the one-way landers down; once I got a skycrane with a rover deployed without everything exploding I'll go back to kerbal testing ;)


Will upload some screenshots tonight

Monkeh

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Re: Kerbal Space Program
« Reply #34 on: July 25, 2013, 14:10:23 PM »
...and then update. It seemed the save file was kinda broken by it. I converted, (or w/e it was), the save files and it seemed to work but it started crashing all over the place, every launch...crash, go back to VAB...crash. I started a new game and it seems fine.

Building a beast now, I really want to get to Jool and land on Laythe, I saw it form Jool orbit and it's got green stuff and oceans and seas but it's a tricky blighter to land on, tiny corrections in delta v, (like 20 m/s), and you're suddenly encountering another one of Jool's Moons instead.

I'll get there. With no cheats and only a single launch, that's my current mission, no docking for re-fueling, single flight and single launch all the way.

SexuallyAbusedPanda

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Re: Kerbal Space Program
« Reply #35 on: July 25, 2013, 14:38:18 PM »
I finally got a ship to go to orbit height with a payload. only taken me what 2 months of very casual playing to do so but so happy. Had a single fusilarge with 3x2 skinny fuel pods with 225 thrust engines each. On the outside of the fuel tanks I have 4x2 skinny fuel tanks with same engines, on the outside of those I had a solid fuel boosters outside those. Looked so bottom heavy but held its course and had many and more fuel left once in space. Even got close to the sun before thinking I should have put myself into orbit rather and see how far I could go :>

SexuallyAbusedPanda

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Re: Kerbal Space Program
« Reply #36 on: July 25, 2013, 14:39:18 PM »
I do need some further training/youtube videos on how to do space flight, orbits, aiming for mun/planets. I have no clue and the tutorial didn't help either :(

Monkeh

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Re: Kerbal Space Program
« Reply #37 on: July 25, 2013, 16:52:40 PM »
Quick pointers for you. Set up a maneuver node on your orbit. A circular orbit is best. Remember to increase the height of your Apopap you burn prograde at periap. That is click on orbit line and stretch the green circle outwards. You will see your apoap getting higher. Burning as close to those points as possible gives you the most 'bang for your buck'. If you make the orbit reasonably circular then you can move the node around the orbit and watch what happens to your trajectory.

So, to hit other bodies you want to add a maneuver until the projected trajectory moves somewhere near their orbit. Then, you can slide the node to different places, by clicking on the circle of the node and dragging it round the orbit path, and watch for little blue pointers that will pop up on both your trajectory and the bodies orbit. This will show you 'Position at closest approach' and 'Target position at closest approach'. Then you fiddle with the exact position and exact delta v of your burn until they coincide.

When you get it just right you'll see a little coloured, (think it's blue), ball appear and then another further down your trajectory. Hover over them and it will say 'Mun encounter' and 'Mun escape'. Once you have that you can warp time and coast to that point.

When you hit it you'll have another line appear with a 'Mun Periapsis'. If you burn retrograde, (backwards, the green ball with the cross), at that point, (remember, slowing down at lowest point of your trajectory will lower the highest point and accelerating at lowest point will raise the highest point...this all sounds complicated, but really, it's not that difficult once you see it in action), you'll slow down and enter into orbit around the Mun. Set up a maneuver node so you can see it before it happens. Once in orbit you can burn more retrograde at the apoapsis, (highest), to lower the periapsis, (lowest), until you have a crash course and then burn to slow down at the right times...this is the hard bit, especially if you happen to be coming down on the dark side of the Mun.

On the navball you can see your speed in relation to your orbit. Once you have orbit around the Mun click the little box and it should change from 'Orbit' to 'Surface' which will tell you how fast you're moving in relation to the Mun and not the orbital speed.

Press 'g' to lower landing legs. Hit the surface at around 5 m/s....EVA...plant flag...profit.

frymaster

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Re: Kerbal Space Program
« Reply #38 on: July 30, 2013, 16:15:05 PM »

Monkeh

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Re: Kerbal Space Program
« Reply #39 on: July 31, 2013, 23:28:14 PM »
Nice one fry :D

I decided I wanted to get a buggy on the Mun, possibly Ion drive powered, so I had a go...

It's going well...


Oh my...really well.


I....


Got dis....!


...Sort of. Down aren't I? Shuttit you.


Oh...design problem. Back to the Hangar!


Despite failure, Kerbals on the Mun remain happy as Larry.

Second attempt...

2nd attempt was, ermm...a little bit worse. Hey, he's roving in the rover at least, maybe not quite on the Mun, but he's roving, leave it.


Ahh well, successful EVA to get on the thing at least.  Let's have another go then s'pose.

This time maybe?


On your marks...


Get set...




GO....!


SUCCESS! Although the ion drives and probe control ate all of my electric charge too quick to have a lot of use, but I made it. Now need more electricity on board...
« Last Edit: August 01, 2013, 09:30:23 AM by Monkeh »

Peacekeeper

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Re: Kerbal Space Program
« Reply #40 on: August 01, 2013, 08:26:13 AM »
Hahaha :D

I'm currently on my 5th rescue mission attempt to get my first kerbal on the moon back home.
The poor little Rorod sits there after a failure in stage decoupling (i.e. the landing capsule decoupled from the engine that should bring it back home.) The second mission, also manned, crash landed, but the Kerbal survived. I lost contact to him though as electricity ran out. The next rover close to it flipped over about 80km away...

All other unmanned missions failed - 3 and 5 crashed down, 4 is now a safe base on Minmus (ahm... hehe...  ::) ), the other tries that failed miserably shouldn't be mentioned, though... all in all theres more than a dozen missions to Mun that didn't go as planned.

Monkeh

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Re: Kerbal Space Program
« Reply #41 on: August 01, 2013, 09:12:39 AM »
I think that's where the joy of this game lies to be honest. The sense of achievement you get when it goes well and the great funny moments when it goes badly, badly wrong, (see my roving in orbit picture above). My attempts to land on Laythe with a single launch vehicle have been put on hold, I rage quitted my last attempt and went to land on Duna instead, then I made this:



It has the caption, 'Why u stand on me?' on my steam. Made me chuckle after the disheartening failure of not getting to Laythe :D , well, not getting on to Laythe, I kinda got there:



It looks so pretty too.  :'(

Still utterly loving this wonderful game, and it's still only an alpha, can't wait for the finished product.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2013, 09:20:45 AM by Monkeh »

SexuallyAbusedPanda

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Re: Kerbal Space Program
« Reply #42 on: August 01, 2013, 09:39:18 AM »
And here's me only just getting into orbit...

Think I need to sink a lot more time into this game :)

Monkeh

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Re: Kerbal Space Program
« Reply #43 on: August 01, 2013, 10:13:13 AM »
SPOILER ALERT AS I'MMA HELP PANDA OUT WITH SOME POINTERS.

To get to the Mun then this is what you do, you'll need a decent rocket first, but if you can get to orbit then you should be able to get to the Mun easy enough.

Once you get to around 13,000 to 15,000m you should start to turn to the East, (90 degrees on the nav ball), by around 20-30 degrees. Once you get to around 35,000m and around 500m/s you can start to turn more horizontal. The first bit of the burn will get you some nice vertical speed but to get to orbit you also need to build up horizontal speed to ensure you miss Kerbol when falling.

Keep pressing 'M' to check your apoapsis. Once it gets to around 75-80,000 then you're out of the atmosphere, or will be once you get there. Burning at the apo and peri apses gives you the most efficient use of fuel so, timewarp a bit until you get near the apo, turn so you're fully horizontal at 90 degrees and burn like a bitch. The closer you are to the apo the more change in velocity you will get for a specific burn. Keep checking 'M' as you burn and cut the engines once the peri swings round to where the apo was. Now you have the lowest point of your trajectory above the atmosphere as well. Congratulations, you have a stable orbit. This is known as the gravity turn.

Zoom out on the map and click on the Mun to set it as target. You'll see an ascending and descending node. Add a maneuver near one of them and accelerate forwards, ie grab the green circle, (prograde) and stretch it out. You'll see the effects of the burn on your orbit as well as see how much delta v you need to achieve it, that is just to the right of the navball.

Now you can set the maneuver up to burn prograde with so much delta v, all is good, but the projected orbit is nowhere near the Mun...bummer. All you do is grab the node by the circle and move it around your orbit. where you end up will move as well...shocker. As you move it around and mess with the delta v what you're doing is showing what your trajectory will be after adding that amount of speed in that particular direction at that point. You should be able to meet up with the Mun easy enough. Just play around with the position of the node, the amount of delta v you're adding and look out for the little grey markers showing 'position at closest approach' and 'target position at closest approach'. Get them to coincide and you'll get a little blue ball appear called, 'Mun encounter'.  The blue target on your navball is the place to aim at. Coast with the timewarp to the node. Burn until your orbit matches the one you want. Shut down engines. You should now be on a path to that 'Mun encounter'.

Time warp to it and your trajectory changes and you'll see a Mun periapsis marker. Slow down here and you shall lower the apo. Make it roughly circular. Then coast to the other side and brake again, by brake I mean accelerate toward your retrograde marker, slowing you down.

Keep on slowing at one side to lower the other until you have an orbit that no longer has a periapsis...you're hitting the Mun. Gratz.

Now you need enough fuel to slow down. Aim your marker at the retrograde marker and start to burn. Now is a good time to click the little box above your navball so it changes to surface and not orbit. Now you know how fast you're approaching the Mun and how high you are ABOVE THE AVERAGE HEIGHT NOT ABOVE YOUR LANDING POINT!

This can take a bit of practice to get right, I ran out of fuel loads of times before working it out a bit. As long as you aim at the retrograde marker then you should see that marker start to move to the top of the navball, ie you should slowly start to kill horizontal velocity and aim straight up for the nice soft landing coming up.

Hit the floor at around 5m/s and it's all good. You got dis.

The ship I used for the rover landing has 5 mainsails and a lot of fuel. I have 2 sets of 2 tanks around a central. The first set of 2 tanks feed into the second which feed into the middle. I decouple each set of two in turn. So I have 5 mainsails to start, then when the outer two burn out they get dropped and we have 3 mainsails and then when they burn out I have the single mainsail left which get's me into orbit with some fuel left. I have another stage in the middle to burn to the Mun and then the lander to ermmm, land.  I get to the Mun very easily, with quite a bit of fuel to spare.

I may try to make a little video to make all this a lot clearer at some point. Maybe tonight actually, I'm feeling inspired by my successful rover landing, come join my smug glow of superiority.

And here's me only just getting into orbit...

Think I need to sink a lot more time into this game :)

I'd sink as much time into it as you want tbh, it is only an alpha right now after all, but my mind wont stop with ideas of stuff to build. I want to make a wheel of death in orbit next, Also a Mun base is needed as well.


« Last Edit: August 01, 2013, 12:20:08 PM by Monkeh »

Peacekeeper

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Re: Kerbal Space Program
« Reply #44 on: August 01, 2013, 11:21:28 AM »
My respective start-and-get-into-orbit technique: up 10,000m, turn to 90° (East), hit it until you got to 70000m on your Apoapsis and once the number is up, start burning like hell into prograde direction until you're at apoapsis. If your thrust isn't sufficient to bring you into a circular orbit above 70km, turn slightly back to about 160°, 140° on your East line (somewhere between the white "90" and the white lined border between blue and orange on the nav-ball). By doing this you postpone your apoapsis/put it in front of you again, from where you can burn prograde again.

I for my part work alot with the atomic engine at that stage as the booster/first stage has burnt out at about 70km and a semi-stable orbit. It's an awesome little twidbit-thingy and will bring you to mun with more than enough fuel to do a head-on landing (i prefer these): when on orbit around kerbin and you cross Mun's sphere of influence, try to head straight for it's surface without going into orbit first. Saves some fuel i think and when you turn around, burn fuel like hell and get rid of your second stage you're at least at the same point or even better off as if you had used the Munar Orbit. Above all, though, it saves time.

Only my piloting skills above ground are somewhat lacking... I always panic before touching the ground, thus using too much throttle, turning it over and breaking everything... ah, gravity, thou art a heartless bitch...